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I've never been able to get a good electric guitar tone into pro tools.
Even when I was working with an HD3 a few years back.
That said, I was wondering if you guys would like to chat about recording electric guitar?
I have a shure sm57 and a rode NTK. supposedly the 57 is good for recording amps but....
I beg to differ.
I've tried pointing it down on the cone, sticking it in the back of the amp, directly in front, etc....
I know there are many factors that I am unaware of and would love to learn some more about this art. thank you.
Even when I was working with an HD3 a few years back.
That said, I was wondering if you guys would like to chat about recording electric guitar?
I have a shure sm57 and a rode NTK. supposedly the 57 is good for recording amps but....
I beg to differ.
I've tried pointing it down on the cone, sticking it in the back of the amp, directly in front, etc....
I know there are many factors that I am unaware of and would love to learn some more about this art. thank you.
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 9:48 AMMaybe if you had an HD4 it would of sounded better.. (sorry had to)..
57's can work well on amps. Very standard mic choice of electric gitters.
What kind of guitar/amp are you using? That will have the biggest effect on your sound.. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 9:52 AMModern guitar Sim plugins are a great way to go as well. I prefer this myself. I'll get slammed by guitar purists for saying that. But i track the DI of the guitar as well as the miced amp. & 1/2 the time i end up using the DI with a amp sim. I've fooled countless guitarists. "ow that sounds great" "is that my amp?" -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 10:07 AMAnother idea is to use 2 or more mics and blend the sound, like :
- put a 57 near the speaker cone (often pointed at the edge, but of course there's no "right" placement)
- a room mic at least a few feet away (e.g. condensor, ribbon, or whatever sounds good) . Make sure any multiple room mics are carefully placed to avoid phasing issues.
I agree it's good to also record with a DI (e.g. using a splitter) just to have more options.
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 10:05 AMI doubt the 57 is the source of your problem, you may not prefer it, but it can be found in any "pro" studio anywhere and for good reason. Again it may not yield the tone you want, but I have found that as important as mic placement is, the chain before and after the mic is equally as important. Maybe you don't like the amp you're using? How about the preamp the mic is running through? EQ?
Ideally you should be able to pair the 57 with a good preamp and setup the guitar amp with good eq settings and place the 57 in a good spot and get an awesome tone. But there are a lot of variables, maybe its even your room, is it treated? Does it have a good reverb to it? Depending on style, you might want it to be as dead as possible.
I also find my amp settings are completely different playing live as opposed to recording. Usually I end up rolling out a lot of the low end on my amp and making it brighter than I would just sitting in a room with it. Also you will probably find for distorted guitar you need much less distortion than you think to punch thru a mix.
As eRic suggests, you may want to try stacking a DI plugin with your source mic, I almost always use two sources per track as well, whether it's two mics, one moc and a DI or two DI tracks with different amp sims. If I need heavier distortion or drive I'll have one channel with very little distortion and more mids underneath the distorted track to bring out some transients and punch. Maybe try sticking the NTK in front and the 57 in back or both in fron ton different speakers (be careful of your phase though if they're both close mic'd)
Give us some more info about the style and sound you're shooting for, about your gear and about your room, we could probably get you more specific info.
word. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 11:38 AMthanks for the replies everybody.
I'm just talking about recording electric guitar in general.
When I do record I usually record in a dead environment with no reverb.
I understand that rooms affect tone greatly.
I can actually get a really good clean tone with the 57, but when it comes to distortion I've found that amp plug-ins like amplitube2 or guitar rig2 sound much better than any amp I've ever mic'd.
The reason I'm looking into this further is because I was listening to the album Core by stone temple pilots this morning very loud :)
and !!!!!!
their guitars sound so good!
Sounds like at least 3 marshalls layered turned up high with the occasional clean/chorus overlay and acoustic.
I'd love to be able to get close to this heavy but soft tone....but I fear I'd need a couple hundred grand?
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 1:58 PM"Sounds like at least 3 marshalls layered turned up high with the occasional clean/chorus overlay and acoustic.
I'd love to be able to get close to this heavy but soft tone....but I fear I'd need a couple hundred grand?"
While I honestly don't think you could get that tone with plug-ins I also don't think you would need to spend THAT much either. I'm sure they're using nice amps (maybe a few thousand worth), but I am confident I could get similar tones with my Fender Blues DeVille/Orange Head and a 57 and an AT4050 and maybe a few stomp boxes. If you have decent gear and take the time to treat the room and position the amps and mics I am sure you can achieve really good tones.
I like amp plugins, but I don't think they can compare to a well mic'd, high quality rig. I love the plugins because they take no fussing to get up and running and get a great tone immediately and they can help fix the mix after the fact if the tone you recorded wasn't just right.
I would also say 90% of what makes the guitars amazing on STP songs is the player! The best tone and recording line on a horribly written or poorly performed song will still sound like crap... your mileage may vary. :) -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 2:00 PMoh and don't discount compression and eq while mixing when you're judging the tone. I don't think "fixing it in the mix" is the best way to get a killer tone, you should try to do that from the outset like you're asking for help with, but post recording production can make it sparkle too. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 2:03 PMI agree.
Thanks for your input.
I've made terrible guitar tones sound "good" in a mix.
Radiohead is good at this, IMO.
And not necessarily terrible....but.....trashy
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 2:04 PMp.s. where can I learn more about acoustics in a home studio?
(not too technical) -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 2:24 PMwww.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html Ethan Winer is pretty straight forward and has some really great info.
I built a bunch of bass traps/broad band absorbers myself using Owens Corning 703 insulation sheets, 2"x4" studs from home depot and burlap fabric from Joann Fabrics. They set me back about $42 each (compare to around $150 at most acoustic treatment stores). It's definitely something you can do on your own and it helps IMMENSELY. I have been meaning to post some photos here and some explanations to help out others but haven't gotten around to it. I basically made 4 2'x4' boxes out of the studs from Home Depot (they're actually 2"x4" and not 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 as most 2x4s are, weird I know) and I set two sheets of 2'x4'x2" Owens Corning 703 insulation in after wrapping them in Burlap. It can be any fabric that you can breathe through. Right now I only have 4 of these panels in my smallish space, but it does wonders in taming frequencies, I put one in each corner behind my speakers and one on each wall next to where I sit. I plan on building more to use as gobos as well for sticking behind or between amps, drums etc and will treat the room more completely once I get a bigger room. I would recommend using a system like this over Aurlex products as they don't do a whole lot for frequency control, though they may tame some reflections. Plus DIY is super cheap! -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 6:15 PMI think it also depends greatly on the amp. Fender Twins in particular sound pretty harsh miked with an SM57, at least that's been my experience. I think the slightly buzzsaw quality of the Twin is greatly exaggerated by the midrange bump on a 57. I've gotten better results with the somewhat smoother MD-421, or by going with a large condenser like a TLM103 or KSM-32.
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 11:10 PMI use a combination of mics on guitar cabinets. It really always depends on the tone I'm looking for. But my pair of Royer R121's are nearly always involved, both in front of and behind the cab. And a 57 is often involved, too, although I tend to go for a 421 or 441 or a Blue 8-Ball first. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Wed, December 12, 2007 - 12:49 AMCool. thanks. you guys have no idea how helpful you are to someone like me. Or do you? Either way. I appreciate it. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Thu, December 13, 2007 - 6:47 AMGood solid advice here as always!
My 2 cents?
Does it sound GREAT coming out of the amp? IF not ...keep tweaking... Once it sounds like you want, then proceed to miking. I'd suggest a 57 close and directly on axis with the speaker and then use the NTK about 3 ft back (play with it !) and try to blend these to your liking .. you should be able to get some juicy tones worthy of the "R" button. As stated already "performance"is critical. Jimi Hendrix would have sounded incredible even if recorded on a boom box. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Thu, December 13, 2007 - 9:48 AMhell yeah he would!
speaking of which,
I used to have this little marshall amp I bought for 50$ it was SO TINY like a minihalfstack maybe 3 or 4 inches tall and when I recorded it with the 57 it sounded SO GOOD!
I wish I still had it.
damn. -
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Re: Recording electric guitar
Sun, January 6, 2008 - 8:05 PMsmaller amps are good ... the first zep album was done on a small supro with the infamous jimmy page 2 mic method. someone described it below. one mic (57) about 4-5 in. away from the cone. slightly off center. then a room condenser mic at least 4-5 ft. away. or more if you can. blend the sound.
if your amp sucks nothing will help you...unless you want to go guitar rig method.
having a good amp and guitar is essential. go less than 100watts. 50 is excellent. cos the sound fills the speaker better and you don't have to get so loud to get a good distorted tone. i used a line 6 spider II (not even tube) and i got great results with this method. i used a 50's maple neck strat. you can listen > www.myspace.com/dinobose > the songs sea bells and katha.
i used a Rode NT1A as the room mic about 4 ft away from amp....angled downward slightly
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