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I'm almost ready to submit my mixes for mastering, but have run into a snag.
I'm mixing on $1200 monitors, but I have no sub-woofer, so can't monitor the lower end. My mixes sound great on small systems and in headphones, but on a car stereo that has a sub, all sorts of low 'boomy' artifacts become apparent.
I'm assuming this is something to fix with EQ, but since I can't monitor what I'm doing to that lower range while mixing, I'm not sure what to do about this boominess.
Would cutting the bass off completely at a certain frequency (say 60Hz) be a wreckless solution?
Any ideas?
Thanks.
I'm mixing on $1200 monitors, but I have no sub-woofer, so can't monitor the lower end. My mixes sound great on small systems and in headphones, but on a car stereo that has a sub, all sorts of low 'boomy' artifacts become apparent.
I'm assuming this is something to fix with EQ, but since I can't monitor what I'm doing to that lower range while mixing, I'm not sure what to do about this boominess.
Would cutting the bass off completely at a certain frequency (say 60Hz) be a wreckless solution?
Any ideas?
Thanks.
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Sun, September 9, 2007 - 5:52 PM
Je'si,
I've dealt this more times than I care to recount -- a mix will sound great on one (or even several) sound systems, but as soon as you play it in the car, or on some other system, it sounds bad. What I would do is go back, put a lo-shelf EQ on the track that seems to be giving you the boom, remix and play it again in the car (and on your other systems). Wash / rinse / repeat until it sounds good everywhere.
Sometimes, you get the boom and it sounds good -- it's a serendipitous thing that you can take credit for when asked :-)
Regards,
John
Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound
www.fallingyou.com
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Sun, September 9, 2007 - 8:23 PMJohn has some solid advice, I usually cut almost every element at 150Hz with a lo pass filter EQ except for the bass elements (like bass guitar or synth and kick). Then maybe try a multiband comp on the low freq if they're still killing your mix.
The low end builds up really quickly in a mix and its that low end that really gets you every time. If you're worried about an over bearing sub then you will need to monitor on a system with a subwoofer, though that's not my preferred method as it's really hard to get the subwoofer right in most rooms, especially without proper acoustic treatment. Some of the boomy low end can be fixed in mastering, but your mileage may vary so I wouldn't leave that to the mastering engineer to "correct" as the ME should be focusing on cleaning and sweetening, not fixing. -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Sun, September 9, 2007 - 9:46 PMthanks for all the advice - i'll try out the tips tomorrow.
j3r - do you mean a hi pass filter EQ at 150Hz? In other words, you allow all frequencies above 150 to come through?
i wonder what the difference between shelving and filtering is, and which is most appropriate in such a scenario.
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 8:46 AM"j3r - do you mean a hi pass filter EQ at 150Hz? In other words, you allow all frequencies above 150 to come through? "
oops, my bad, yeah its high pass filter at 150, I bet you'll hear an immediate improvement just from that. I might also try a dip around 60-80 (probably 60 for a sub) if the bass is still too aggressive. -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 9:18 AMthanks again for the tip. so, just to be clear, you insert a hi pass at 150Hz (eliminating all frequencies below 150) on 'non-bassy' channels, and on lower frequency tracks (bass/synth etc.) you roll off around 60Hz? -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 9:28 AMI recommend against "rolling off" at 60Hz, your mileage may vary...
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Unsu...
Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 9:38 PMI don't know what software you're using... but I find that using some sort of real time spectrum analyzer plug-in helps to make it clear what bands you should be removing...
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Sun, September 9, 2007 - 9:48 PMwhy is TV output so Boomy? I hooked up my Mackies to my tv outs and it seems boomy? They must lean on the bass end when mixing for T.V.?
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 11:01 PMWe don't even know what style of music you're making - people are throwing around all kinds of frequencies you should cut without regard to the kind of music!
I'd recommend taking your mixes to a studio with good monitoring and acoustics and getting the mixes better before mastering. I don't mean expensive speakers or necessarily a system with a subwoofer (cos if the subwoofer isn't tuned to the room it's not going to help). Instead, a room which is as "flat" as possible at the mix position. The studio I work at put about $10,000 just into control room acoustics in order to get closer to this ideal (though wish we had the $60,000 we would have needed to do everything "perfect"), to give you a sense of the effort involved in creating a good acoustic space.
I would never use a HPF/lowcut above 25hz on a whole mix unless there was a creative effect I was going for. There is a lot of important stuff down there. The boomy stuff you're complaining about could be in the low mids or in the bass, each which require different treatments. -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 2:30 AMI agree!
There are no generalizations to how to control those low frequencies. It all depends on the instruments and compositional intention.
Treat each track according to it's own sound, but also watch those frequency meters and displays. If there is a lot of bass information in the overall mix then roll off the mix at those frequencies.
Thinning all instruments by rolling off the bass at the same frequency might just destroy the fullness of some instruments.
Reserve certain low ranges for the bass instruments to place them in the forefront.
babble, babble... another reactive theory.
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 8:41 AMI agree to a point, but what do you expect on an internet forum?
I did an entire record in an untreated basement room with Alesis Monitor One's no less! The low end isn't perfect, but its actually very good for what I knew about mixing at the time (which was next to nothing). We gave him some broad ideas to try, we're not mixing his record for him and suggesting he needs to go do it somewhere else isn't what he is asking for. I think it's entirely appropriate the kinds of responses he's been given for a DIY approach. Obviously he knows he would be better off in a room treated with $10,000+ worth of acoustic foam and basstraps, but that's not what he's asking for, sometimes we have to do the best with what we have. It's easy to fall down the gearhole and throw money at art...
and don't rolloff the low end at 60... again... ;) -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 8:56 AMthanks everyone for all the contributions.
i've been recording as an amateur for about 15 years, and just now starting to learn about eq'ing a mix, but i'm not so silly as to take someone's numbers strictly and apply them on a leap of faith - i've taken the high pass / shelving advice to treat each track with my own ears, and to create some room down below for the bassier elements.
i found that for the stuff i'm doing (extremely minimal children's music - thumb pianos, glockenspiels etc.), a low shelf has worked moreso than a hpf, as it retains some lower harmonics but reduces the volume of the lower, boomy frequencies.
the boom issue seems to have been solved, and the rest sounds just as great as it did before, so i'm happy.
: )
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 1:28 PMJe'si,
>> a low shelf has worked moreso than a hpf, as it retains some lower harmonics but reduces the volume of the lower, boomy frequencies.
That's exactly what I was going to suggest... a HPF (especially all the way *up* at 150Hz should maybe be reserved for elements that you want NO low end in. Not something to be done on all elements except for the bass elements.
That's a very "electronic" technique that may work well for dancefloor-oriented (to be played by a DJ at a club/party) music, but not so much for something a bit more naturally intended. I get the impression that your music is more organic. Even in club music, that may be a bit extreme (150Hz) for all but bass elements.
A low-shelf for me is ALWAYS necessary... no matter what instrument we're talking about. To get music not to "boom" or FLUBB on car stereos, those bass elements need to have their lows (perhaps all below 100-125Hz) attenuated. Perhaps as much as 8-9dB for certain really wompy bass sounds.
I like Jeremy's recommendation about using a Multiband (at least 2band) compressor for bass elements. I would also either use a low-shelf EQ and cut some lows... or just mix the low-band on the compressor down a bit. Untamed basses and kick drums are almost always WAY too bassy unless you're pulling a sample from an instrument or library that has had the sounds compressed and EQ'd to sound great on all systems. Many new sample libraries and instruments (especially drums/percussion related) are done that way. The kick drums especially have been EQ'd and compressed to smack without flubbing smaller (like car) stereos with less bass forgiving speakers.
Keep in mind though, when pitching up or down those samples, it changes the frequency characteristics and will negate that type of EQ'ing. You'll need to reEQ the problem frequencies sometimes.
So my point is that people shouldn't use the low-shelf-by-default formula without exception. Our ears are always the best judge.
I have yet to see a bass synthesizer or sample library, however, that has the bass sounds EQ'd and compressed for car stereos. I would imagine that's because you can't really do that with basses since the notes will be playing melodies and it must be compressed and EQ'd after the basses are playing their parts. You don't compress and EQ each bass note separately.. well unless you're an OCD maniac!! :) -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 1:37 PMIt sounded like I was generalizing a bit there by saying "EQ'd and compressed for car stereos".
That's a bit of a simplification. Although, for me, that's always what it ends up being ABOUT. Does it sound good on crap systems, in a stock, Honda Civic stereo, in elevator (in mono, out one shitty little speaker) on an alarm clock radio, coming out a TV...
As long as it holds up at nearly full-blast (not TOO much distortion or speaker farts, especially with kicks & basslines) on a ghetto blaster...
All of that is "where the rubber meets the road" I guess. Or from what my experience has shown, if it sounds great on one of those stereos, it will almost always sound amazing on a big sound system or in a studio on great monitors.
There must be a reason why Dr. Dre has to (is rumored to) have a little boombox and a car w/ a not-so-good stereo wired in to his studio.
This is probably total B.S. but it sounds good and makes the point whether or not it's actually true. :) -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Thu, September 20, 2007 - 9:24 AMIn any case, this has been a great thread. And I'm sure that Je'si and me are not the only ones who gained a great deal of insight from what everyone has been generous enough to share.
So thanks to everyone!
chendo
guerrillasoul.com
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